|
funkychick
|
Well are we in or are we out? - seems we are hanging by a thread
As one who never wanted to go into the EU I should be ecastic but I am not sure about the timing is it the best move we ever made or the mistake of a lifetime It appears to be one of those tightrope moments where we could say thank goodness as we watch the Euro disappear into extinction or find ourselves out on a limb with the Merkel/ Sarkozy union victorious. I do believe it is the Merkel/Sarkosy show with lots of other bit players following like lambs I see Crotia has now been welcomed in how much bigger will it get?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Old Spice
Guest
|
I'm not in favour of the EU.,and fail to see why Merkel and Teacozy should be seen as somehow 'in charge'.
Lets face it anything that gives a job to that disaster Kinnock and the rest of his tribe can never be creditable.
The sooner we're allowed to govern ourselves rather than keep bowing and scraping to Brussels the better.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Aussie K
|
|
|
Hi fc .& old spice, I believe we are a long way from "out" but it is some thing that I wish could happen at some time or other, obviously I am nervous of the consequences of the latest dramatic occurrence but what I do think is whatever happens we will at some stage recover and start making our own decisions on the way forward and I feel fairly confident that it will have to be an improvement for us & them all round.
I do believe that the EU will need us just as much as we need them for trading together when all this dust has settled. The big shame as I see it is that if we can eventually make the brake it looks as if it is going to make for a sour taste in the way we will be leaving & thats a pity, France, Germany, Italy and all the countries of Europe have so much culture like our own but it ought to be their choice if they want the EU as it should be ours.
It may have been a totally different situation if our political leaders had been totally open from the outset & given the people of Britain a democratic choice. Whatever the out come of that choice I am sure that we would have accepted it and all would have been better in both Europe & Brittian.
I cannot be sure if that choice is ever going to be available to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
JollyJapes
Guest
|
From what I can gather, it is a classic case of politicians living in a world apart from how the common person wants them to act. According to many news reports from differing sources, the normal working person in most European countries thinks it is a mistake to join closer together in the EU, and wishes their own politicians had the guts to to do what the UK has done. Personally, I think it will be interesting to see what happens when Germany and France in the future start dictating to the others what fiscal policy should be, including an expected (from me) raise in taxes across the board.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
funkychick
|
I believe we could build ourselves back up again, we managed before EU and as you say Aussie we can still trade with Europe and all other countries, we lost so much trade with the commowealth in favour of building up EU i didnt vote to go in the Common Market as it was then but I think the people that did vote yes thought it was mainly a trading situation never believed all their rights, culture and rules would be lost. Having listened to lots of news and views I am ot at all sure we wont be out sooner rather than later
I totally agree JJ I think that Merkel/Sarkozy will be dictating to the rest and it may not be the joy ride they are expectinng I read that three quarters of the French population wish to be out of the Eurozone
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Aussie K
|
Can any one imagine the French risking their wine trade to spite us, or come to that any European country not wanting a sales opportunity of 60/70 million people and cutting off trading with us which seem to be the worries of the Liberal democrats.
I hope that this is the chance many of us have been hoping for i just hope the EU can some how hold together their debt problems so that trading can continue.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
robbie2010
|
The only reason Cameron applied his veto was for the short term appeasement of his mainly Eurosceptic party and his rich city backers. It had nothing to do with the long term interests of the UK. This move has bought him time. He fears that by signing up to treaty changes he will, during the lifetime of the coalition government, be forced to hold a referendum to ratify or otherwise those changes. He knows full well that there are many of the electorate who support the Eurosceptic viewpoint but is unsure of how many are pro Europe. In effect he does not trust the electorate to give him and his party the referendum backing he wants. This move has effectively made us the 'LEPER COLONY' of Europe, which in the long term will not be in the interests of this country.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A Scot who owns a little bit of Lowestoft
Education is what you get when you read the fine print - Experience is what you get when you don't!!
|
|
|
|
Aussie K
|
Cameron is not the only PM who have been frightened to take the issue's of Europe to the the electorate & not only Tory PM's. Well I firmly believe that it would we the best thing that could happen to Britain since sliced bread providing a fair & reasonable withdrawal could be negotiated so that bitterness is kept to a minimum.
Cannot you see that, if the French & German plan had gone through we would have been paying three times more than the rest of Europe (Put together) in taxes for financial transactions and that could in no way be acceptable.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
snowdrop
|
i gather the right wing in holland want gilder back
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Veltmeijer
Super Member
Gender: 
Posts: 244
¸.•°*”Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄ƷƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ˜”*°•.¸
|
|
|
|
Yes, I would have preferred to kept the Dutch Guilder ,
but as always, the common man (read woman) never asked for an opinion, the Euro was simply pushed down to our throats.
20 Years ago they made plans for all the European countries , to pay all with the Euro
It sounded so beautiful, but they did not look further into the future,
Economically weak countries were also added, the more countries there are, the stronger we would.
Now 20 years later they found out that there are countries (Southern Europe)
who always let it look better,... better than it really was,
they are a financial disaster,... they have lived there as a God,
and now the money has suddenly disappeared , they are knocking on the door of the other countries
and we can do savings to pay their debts .
After the introduction of the euro everthing in Holland has become very expensive,
I did before shopping for 50 Gulden, now it is 50 Euro for the same, so everything is twice as expensive.
And no, our wages are not doubled, thats still the same as we had in the time we have used the Gulden.
I can be wrong but I think only one nation benefits from the Crissis in Europe
and that is America ,
the worse it goes with the euro, the better their economy is going up,
it would not surprise me that America is breaking the Euro.
It is America that gives and takes the countries in Europe a Tripple A status,
And believe me , soon America take Germany ( with the strongest economy in Europe ) off their status too .....
and the Euro is past.
( This is my opinion in a discussion and you do not have to agree with me.
my apologies for any spelling errors)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
snowdrop
|
i do agree with all you say corrine
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
snowdrop
|
just add your spelling far better than mine 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
funkychick
|
I agree too Corrine and I think many Europeans from many countries feel the same. you can only ever put together so many different countries many different cultures, many different tax systems in a dream not in real life and all are suffering (apart from the very rich)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
JollyJapes
Guest
|
I agree with most, apart from the America being to blame. As much as I would like to blame hem, I thin the one country to do best out of the mess is actually China. It is Chinese companies that own much of the debt of the West through financial institutions that have bought up debt issues. And many of these Chinese companies are indirectly owned by the government. I personally feel that when looking at long term issues, we need to consider the wisdom of allowing much of our debt to be held by foreign companies.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
freelance
|
I can be wrong but I think only one nation benefits from the Crissis in Europe
and that is America ,
the worse it goes with the euro, the better their economy is going up,
it would not surprise me that America is breaking the Euro.
It is America that gives and takes the countries in Europe a Tripple A status,
And believe me , soon America take Germany ( with the strongest economy in Europe ) off their status too .....
and the Euro is past.
I don't think you will find that the American economy is "going up" at all.
Their national debt grows every day - like ours - and they are now well over $15 TRILLIONS in debt.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Aussie K
|
Veltmeijer I feel sure in my mind that America of which you mean the USA are not responsible for the breakdown of the Euro but as you touched on countries spending more than they are earning, we in Britain should know it full well but too many of us go around with rose tinted glasses and cannot see the wood for the trees.
When most of us older generation were young we had it embossed on our minds that before we could buy any thing you must save up for it. Now if you want something just get it on your card & pay later, & thats how governments have worked.
Now the crunch is here & its payback time or go bust.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
frankiesays
|
The only reason Cameron applied his veto was for the short term appeasement of his mainly Eurosceptic party and his rich city backers. I must admit to not seeing much of the news over the last few days but I thought if he signed up he would be agreeing to allow Europe to control our budgets as well as our laws? Would you have signed up Robbie?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Mel
|
Yes, I would have preferred to kept the Dutch Guilder ,
The 'Wall Street Journal' has reported that a few Eurozone countries are in talks about booking 'print time' to start printing their own currencies again instead of the Euro...although the 'Wall Street Journal' has not named their sources I would not disbelieve this story completely.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
funkychick
|
Thats right mel I have read where many europeans hate the Euros and want their own currency back
I hope it turns out Cameron has been brave I have little time for him but think he was right on this point and between 57% and 62% depending on which poll you read of the electorate is behind him
I never wanted to be led by Germany or France as much as I like those countries and want us to lead ourselves with friendship and trade with the others
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Veltmeijer
Super Member
Gender:
Posts: 244
¸.•°*”Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄ƷƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ˜”*°•.¸
|
|
|
|
The credit crisis, , is formed by the excessive optimism about rising wages and house prices in America.
Banks provided mortgages to people who really could not afford.
These people were in trouble, as they by rising interest rates and falling house prices can no longer pay their mortgage.
That in turn led to losses on loan portfolios as investors sold bonds again.
It has become a mess in the United States and that has influenced the rest of the world
.
Hence the fluctuations not only of the Dow Jones, but also on the AEX.
The banks have also suffered from a crisis of confidence.
They dare no more money to lend to other banks, because no means is who holds the dangerous loans.
"If countries within the European Union are not careful, they get the connection with America and Asia lost."
That warning was from general manager of the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
He called the European Union (EU) to act adequately in order to avoid it in the 'second division' ends up
at a disadvantage in America and Asia, which is faster from the economic crisis seem to get.
"If the Europeans do not act quickly, within ten or twenty years will the game be played between the U.S. and Asia, and Europe will remain on the side,
He wants to avoid this by including greater coordination in Europe.
The European banks bought when the crissis in America began their predatory policies.
Policies of Americans who were in great debt, and that could never repay, but America was left of it,
got money from European banks and our banks were sitting with even more debt.
The agreements of the European leaders, who last week were made and which Gr. Brittain does not want to do with it,
are already on Wall Street questioned.
Rating agency Standard & Poor's warned Thursday that the creditworthiness of all EU countries may be graded lower.
The two other major rating agencies, Moody's and Fitch, following Monday.
So what decisions Europe will make , America can always abort it and that they certainly will do,
because for the crissis the Euro was a strong currency, a good competitor against the U.S. dollar
Do not be naive, but the American will do everything in power to the Euro to decline, because they "rule" Europe,
Even if Europe make good solutions, then they have the power to give a downgrade to powerful European countries, back to to AA +.
making money to be borrowed at the worldbank again expensive for these countries and the euro falls in value again
The fact that S & P last August the credit of the U.S. lowered from AAA to AA +
was therefore taken down by Obama as a "misjudgment"
but when they give Germany and 15 other European countries also this status,
will Obama also say, that's a "misjudgment "....Guess not ....
Because the Europe countries can pay a lot of tax at the worldbank.
I know that Gr. Brittain is a good ally of America, I do not know how your media (should) write about America
In the Netherlands we are not against America but the Dutch media is honest enough to say it exactly as it is.
And what I read and hear here is , that the Americans will do everything to save their own currency,
even though it will be at the expense of (military) allies.
And what if the Russians and Chinese are actually pumping money in Europe.
In this way these countries win a lot of power in the world , while a provocation against the Americans.
Again my apologies if this typing has many spelling errors ,
I hope it is readable and understanding, it's very difficult for me
to find the exact words and to write down that what I mean in English ,
And this is in my view, you do not have to agree ,
I can only give my opinion on what I hear and read
In the Dutch media about the crissis.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
funkychick
|
You write very well Corrine and I think the media and the government give the impression we are hand in glove with US but I think most British citizens can see beyond that. We are great friend s with US people but not so much the government who I believe led us stupidly into war (our fault entirely for licking up to Bush) many people will not forgive Blair and Bush for that and please dont underestimate our understanding of the oil situation.
We each have our own opinions and all views are valid
I remember when I was very young at school and joined a debating group, at that time there was the cold war going on and everyone saw Russia as the big world threat and I remember saying I fear America more than Russia. Russia will think before it acts America wont now that was a niave statement but I still feel the US government particular under Bush who I saw as a huge liability were not to be trusted
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Old Spice
Guest
|
I actually admire Cameron for saying no,we'd have had still more constraints and daft rules forced upon us.Enough was enough.
I feel Cleg needs to grow up,throwing his toys out of the pram probably consigns his silly little party back into the polituical wilderness where it belongs.
Good job too.
Will Teacozy let us use the aircraft carrier now I wonder? Another silly little man with delusions of grandeur.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jamesw82
|
I think up to this point in time Britain has bent over backwards more than enough to help bail out other European countries and we're not in the Euro! (Thank God). Thankfully we don't have Gordon Brown or Red Ed speaking for us in Europe as we'd be totally screwed by now. Norway and Switzerland do perfectly well from being out of the EU. Its countries like China India and Brazil that are the future and could become good trading partners.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
frankiesays
|
Business is business. None of them will ignore a potential customer.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Meryl
Forum Moderator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender:
Posts: 8198
|
I actually admire Cameron for saying no,we'd have had still more constraints and daft rules forced upon us.Enough was enough.
I feel Cleg needs to grow up,throwing his toys out of the pram probably consigns his silly little party back into the polituical wilderness where it belongs.
Good job too.
Let us face it, if we don't agree with something then we don't sign it, and he didn't agree.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Old Spice
Guest
|
Teacozy might light to consider that if it hadn't have been for this country he and his cronies would be under German rule anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
funkychick
|
Seems like they are - he appears to be Merkles puppy dog
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
George27
|
Business is business. None of them will ignore a potential customer.
But more to the point, will they ignore a potential supplier?
If the Euro was to fall rapidly in value against the pound, then it would be tougher on our exporters. But don't worry about that, the City got want it wanted so nothing else matters.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION
cyclelowestoft.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
Old Spice
Guest
|
Before the common market killed off the fishing industry I used to import some knives from Germany.Even after the fishing boats vanished I carried on doing so for some years.
The Germans always preferred payment in pounds sterling,so much so that they gave us an additional discount.However a missive from Brussels stopped me and others from doing this,the discount finished and I stopped importing them.Not too after the knife laws were altered so that sales knives with a fixed blade over three inches long were illegal in most instances.Another load of piffle that probably originated from Brussels.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
George27
|
Before the common market killed off the fishing industry ....
I thought it was the lack of fish caused in some part by over fishing that caused the decline of the fishing industry. A classic example of the 'tragedy of the commons'
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION
cyclelowestoft.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
Old Spice
Guest
|
The common market fishing policy has less to do with conservation that it has to do with safeguarding the more vocal countries fishing industries.
Sadly we had a procession of ineffectual fishing ministers,the worst of which was Elliot Morley 'looking after' British interests.
If anyone can explain to me how throwing hundreds of tons of dead fish that you've caught back into the sea safeguards fish stocks I'm all ears.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
George27
|
I agree with you on the fishing policy OS. But to blame the EU for the collapse on its own isn't the fully story.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION
cyclelowestoft.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
