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George27
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Doomed?
« Posted: 05 November 2011 at 02:48 PM »
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There have been a couple of posting lately that I wanted to reply to, but didn't want to go off topic. I have copied them here, I hope that is OK with the original posters.
I know you mean well George but I am of the opinion that nothing we do can change it for the better, it's like knocking your head against a brick wall.
Bigger problems than pollution are ahead of us & that is feeding the worlds ever increasing population and I feel the same about that. In other word there in now t that can prevent countless millions drifting from one country to another & mass starvation, food wars & what have you.
I am too old to worry about it & I wont be eating any less be cause it's pointless.
The Chinese and India distribute thousands of tons of pollution into the air,the sea and earth daily making parts for silly smart cars and eco friendly this that and the others for tree huggers to use with a self satisfied smile as they 'save the planet'.
Sticking up a few windmills wont make a smell of difference,they're just sticking plasters on a broken leg.
As corporal Fraser used to say "We're all doomed I tell ye,doomed".
I feel that these two issues are closely related to global warming, and what our response to it should be.
For myself, doing nothing and hoping that it goes away isn't an option.
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #2 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 03:35 PM »
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Where are you getting your figures from Aussie? Looking at the figures supplied by the UN, would population will hit 10 billion by 2100.
The numbers of people on the planet is so much the problem as the amount we consume. There is plenty of food available, just look at how over weight the west is getting, and how much food we chuck away. It just needs to be better spread.
What the world could not stand, is energy and resource consumption of the west being matched by the rest of the globe.
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #3 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 03:44 PM »
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... yes we probably are doomed due to apathy and self interest.
I feel one of the reasons for the feeling of apathy is the way the problem is put to us. On the one hand its all death and disaster, on a global scale at that! What can one person do to make any difference? To be honest, not much.
So why do I bother making changes to my life style? To improve the living standard of myself and my family.
By reducing our carbon output we are better off then we would have been, are fitter then we were and we spend more time together as a family. Don't get me wrong, its not the Waltons round here  , but as the carbon out put goes down, life quality goes up.
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #4 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 03:58 PM »
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Aussie your figures just dont make sense if the population has grown by 5 billion in your 80 years why are you suggesting it will be 25billion in another 80 years and 84 billion in another 80 thats way way off the mark
I cant understand the 'I m alright Jack ' attitude of couse it matters what we do now
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #6 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 04:51 PM »
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I cant understand the 'I m alright Jack ' attitude of couse it matters what we do now
Totally agree with you FC.
Imagine that scientists discovered that the worlds atmosphere was changing, and this change was affecting global weather patterns. Once in 50 year weather events started happening more often costing economies millions of pounds a year. Then it was found that this was being caused by a plant situated in (say) North Korea. How long do you think it would be before the UN demanded that it stopped this happening. And if it didn't how long before the US, Russia and China started to threaten military action? And if they did launch an attack the world would support that action.
But because the threat is caused by all our individual actions, we sit back and do nothing. Indeed we either deny the threat or blame someone else. Anything other than look at our own actions, and make changes to our own habits.
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malcolm
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #7 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 05:16 PM »
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If the law of the universe prevails at all levels and it does in many sphere s. The Earth was doing fine untill it caught a virus (humans) and like all virus s it spreads and grows eventually killing the host and in turn its self. Is that what is happening?
Maybe yes or no. There is not a lot we can do about it. Goverments are not taking it seriously or are voters, if they were Caroline Lucas leader of The Green Party would be Prime Minister.
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Forever Yellow
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #8 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 05:30 PM »
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....but we can't all be defeated and roll over surely
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malcolm
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #9 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 05:59 PM »
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No we cant Funky but my fear is we are in the end powerless. If this country went totally green tomorrow with zero carbon emisions. It would make no difference to the planet at all.
We have to do it as a world not individually.
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Forever Yellow
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #10 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 06:20 PM »
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That I totally understand and agree with but we cant all wait for someone else to make a move surely if one country made a big enough effort others would follow like everything else. Look at other bad things that have been irradicated like some diseases not every country was able to innoculate at the same speed as the richer countries but they are gradually all coming on board and some diseases like polio and smallpox are rarely heard of now.
Big oaks out of little acorns grow. - If we have to be the first we have to be the first and shame the others into following but saying nothing can be done is giving up before you start start
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #11 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 06:33 PM »
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Well said FC
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #12 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 06:56 PM »
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I feel that there are several causes of inaction.
That the problem is in the future and the effects of global warming will be mainly felt by people living far away.
That action by the individual will have next to no effect
Its all the fault of others. The chap with the 4x4, the US, China, India ect
People give up smoking for their own benefit, not to reduce the world level of cancer. Carbon reduction could (should?) be seen in the same way.
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #13 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 07:27 PM »
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I own a so called 4X4 though it is in fact a front wheel drive vehicle unless the drive train senses a loss of traction then the rear wheels also take up the driving action from the engine.
It has a foot print shorter than a Ford Mondeo with the same width it weighs the same and is a higher safety rated than that of the Ford, so why is it that this type is classed as a non green vehicle.
I work in conjunction with wind farms (oh that's seen as another waste of time sorry)
yet I think I do help with as much as I can I recycle, I only use what I need to when I have to.
There are lots like me
During the industrial revolution there was the start of the problem it is now that the problem is being addressed I agree a little slow but it is being addressed. It will not happen over night but if the general direction is continued then it will eventually be the norm, until it is seen to be being done there are some who just sit as say "but I'm not if your not" the time will be when those say "I have to to fit in with the rest" a sorry thought but one which I think will be the way it goes.
There I've said it now best I go and lay down or kill myself for owning a planet killing car!
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #14 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 07:41 PM »
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Sorry for any offence Nikkai, none meant. It was just short hand for the excuses people often use for inaction.
The problem is being addressed but far slower than the science dictates that it should be.
Another reason little is being done is the way people get caught up in the small stuff that makes very little difference to their CO2 output. Plastic bags being a classic example. Average CO2 for the UKs population (for plastic bags) is about 5kg, pretty much nothing compared to the 12.5 tonnes of CO2e they are responsible for.
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #15 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 07:56 PM »
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So true and did you know that the Co-oP bags are bio-degradable and please don't use them in your freezer they will break down in there 
I carry three "green" bags in the car for shopping the ones with the shop name like Iceland etc which is just how my mother an father used to bring shopping home when I was a child (in a cloth bag)
I see in Tescos there is a place to put your used carrier bags but then if you bye any goods they are wrapped in so much plastic the mind boggles.
We try to get our meats and veg from sources where packing is not the priority and eggs come from a farm where we use the same tray several times.
I along with others would like to see a faster action regarding the planets health but understand that the world is run by money and it is that which controls most of the lives. If bankers saw a profit in Co2 reduction it would be the only way you could go, sadly unless there is an underlying reason that investment is and will always be lacking.
How much Co2 has been released / made through the use of pyrotechnics during this month and coming months ?
As is said it will be slow, painstakingly at times but it will come to a time when the carbon emmissions are controlled better.
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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malcolm
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #16 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 08:11 PM »
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I disagree. All these little savings are just to make us feel better. They do no real good. Big savings have to be made and they will hurt. Always supposing its not to late anyway.
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Forever Yellow
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #17 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 08:17 PM »
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We will have to stay disagreeable then Malcolm.
even Tesco will tell you
Every Little Helps
I do agree that it would be best to have it sorted in one foul swoop but then you and I both know that will just not happen, cutting down is and will always be better than doing nothing, then eventually cutting out is easier and less painful or distressing IMHO
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #18 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 08:48 PM »
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The good news is that it isn't too late, but the later we leave it, the steeper the cuts will have to be. Big savings need not be that painful. Most changes would have a positive effect on our lives. Saving energy in our homes is easy and has a big impact on CO2 production, and saves a decent amount of cash. Driving less, and with a lighter foot is another quick and easy way of having an impact.
These are far more effective than worrying about small stuff such as plastic bags.
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #19 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 09:26 PM »
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I disagree too, you cannot say well this is too small so I wont bother doing it. It may be about putting 200 small things tgether to make a bigger thing. When there is a disaster in the world, no one person can put it right, but if everyone gave £5.00 or if everyone picked up a shovel it could be put right .
I wonder what the Egyptians thought everytime they put one slab on a pyramid ' Oh this is impossible I m giving up ' or those Romans that dug out our beautiful Broards square by square
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Aussie K
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #20 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 09:36 PM »
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George 27 350% more people are on this earth now from what there were when I was born, I just assumed that in the next eighty years the growth would be similar & so on, I am wildly out according to that graph in that link that malcolm gave us and I have yet to fathom out why.
In any event it looks as if the population will at least double by the time I am 160 & again & again and food shortages are likely to be a great problem as well as global warming. Population drift, pollution of the seas which will be uncontrollable, more wars which in the coarse of time are likely to engulf us.
I may sound as if I am a pessimist worrying about every thing around the corner, Well that is not the case I'm a very pragmatic type of person, I don't like unnecessary waste but every one of us waste to some extent.
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #21 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 09:54 PM »
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Aussie we all do this stuff without thinking of course we do but surely once you recognise its wrong you do somthing about not sit back and say ah well I ve done it wrong for 80 years may as well keep doing it wrong.Surely we are all retrainable and even if it doesnt work in our lifetime it might in our childrens and grandchildrens. We dont know whats round the corner perhaps the human race will go though a trauma or drama that culls a lot of us, I worry about all the things you have mentioned but I try in my own little way to make a difference and thats all any of us can do. Everytime I get the grandkids to help me go to the bottlebank or sort the reycycles out I am training them, everytime they walk or bike to somewhere its giving a message, they know a lot about global warming and third world problems far more than I knew in my little pollyanna world at 8 or 10
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malcolm
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #22 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 10:07 PM »
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I have not given a link Aussie.
I just put my point of view and hope that i am wrong. One thing in the worlds favour is that young people are being taught the right way and it will be in their hands to change things.
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Forever Yellow
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #23 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 10:10 PM »
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Aussie I think I may have worked out where your figures on population have gone astray. Over the last 60 years the number of children born per woman has dropped from 6 to 2.5, and is predicted to fall further.
Our high carbon habit, is just that, a habit. As such we are capable of change. If we all make a small reduction, then we will save a little. We have to go much further than that to have any chance of keeping global warming below a 2 degree increase. We need to reduce our energy use in our homes and when we travel. This does not mean going back to the stone age, just far better energy efficiency.
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Aussie K
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #24 Posted: 06 November 2011 at 10:44 PM »
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The British people have always been at the forefront of giving aid to the third world and could do, & would do, much more if we were a prosperous nation. I do not waste a thing I do all the things that you do In using our bins as they should be used,I recycle almost all my garden waste on the compost heap. I never pollute the sea, rivers ,roads etc but thats normal for maybe most of us
I do have a car which uses a lot of fuel 7 use it for most journeys I make but I use my cycle if it is at all practical.But it doesn't alter the fact in my opinion that econimising in a frugal waywon't make a scrap of difference.
Thank you George I do understand that, is that for the world or just Great Britain.
Motor vehicles are making great strides in reducing consumption of fuel but a breakthrough in battery design is required to make them almost pollution free. Nuclear energy to produce the energy for most of the other power that we need.
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Mickrog
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #25 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 01:05 PM »
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I have to say that I agree with FC et al with regards to all of us actually doing a little bit and that making a difference but we also have to recognise that to support us all doing our bit that the worlds nations need to stand up and be counted.
Whilst all of the noises made in Rio were positive and they lay down the targets for reducing and eliminating pollution as a World we still accept and allow countries like the USA - the worst polluter in the world - to blatantly breach international guidelines set `for the elimination of pollution'.
All of us can help and all of us know deep down that we need to transform the environment, for example the current governements own white papers show that we can eliminate acid rain by introducing gas de-sulphurisation units into our power stations.
They know that we can reduce dramatically the 'greenhouse effect' if power stations were to use fluidised bed combustion, together with a combined heat and power system and they know that this would not only combat pollution but more than double the energy efficiency of coal-fired power stations.
We as a nation need legilsation which is committed to dealing with toxic waste, to help ensure the protection of animals including ourselves, and of our habitats, pollution from chemical and other plants must be declared illegal.
A broad brush estimate created by the Rare Earth syndicate reveals that properly funded environmental policy designed to clean up Britain would cost £10 billion, a figure which could easily be paid out of the £50 billion annual profits of those industries and services which have been privatised since 1979 and are fundamentally resposible for the majority of issues..
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"The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech."
-George Bernard Shaw
“The cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it.”
Mao Tse-Tung quote
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #26 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 02:27 PM »
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I wonder how this will be affected by the Nuclear energy group ? Aussie K
We as a nation need legilsation which is committed to dealing with toxic waste, to help ensure the protection of animals including ourselves, and of our habitats, pollution from chemical and other plants must be declared illegal.
What woulod you do with the waste from a Nuclear Plant ?
a half life of ? how many years ?
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #27 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 02:28 PM »
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well judging by past comments leave it another generation to worry about
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #28 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 02:43 PM »
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I try not to leave it all up to the next generation (look around at some of them) they are living on debt and have no worries about taking more to get the very latest this or that without a thought or care for the world in which they exist so long as it does not affect their own little life or inconvenience them in any way
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #29 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 02:51 PM »
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Hopefully Nikkai the kids growing up will be educated about these problems and care more than present generations do, fingers crossed
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #30 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 03:08 PM »
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I am a father of a father of the very sort of people I have just mentioned,
I brought my sons (and daughters) up to similar views and values I was brought up with then they were told their children should be allowed to do this and that and it's wrong to do this or to criticize that and there are no winners as this would mean there are losers "We are all equal and must live as we feel like living as it is not wrong"
And from that we have seen there is a lot of waste which people just accept (because it is there) that lets the big players do what they feel and almost get away with anything in the name of health safety hygiene or whatever guise that is the talk of the day.
Unfortunately this has lead to now requiring a very large and strenuous retraining of the population.
I can be done and it will be done though it will take several years if not decades to correct the way we live to that which this planet can sustain its inhabitants
Yes the big country's do pollute and so do we, and as we (the UK) is amongst the world leaders in teaching, technology and trends then there is a chance that things will change,
After all there are countries who will "keep up with the Joneses" so they can be included in the whatever 5 wherever 7 summit that will be arranged for the price of a power-station.
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #31 Posted: 07 November 2011 at 09:18 PM »
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well judging by past comments leave it another generation to worry about
Sadly I have to agree with you FC. Very few people are prepared to make changes to their own lives. It would seem they would rather worry about doing things that have little effect on their CO2 emissions such as recycling, rather than the things that really mater such as cutting down on flying, reducing car use and getting our homes insulated.
On the plus side, at least we all seem to be agreed that we are messing up the planet and that something needs to be done.
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #34 Posted: 08 November 2011 at 07:47 AM »
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One thing I would say and this is nothing about good or bad kids but the peer pressre on youngsters today is horrendous, the pressure for xrated online games, long haul travel, staying up very late to watch adult movies owning exensive gadgets at a young age, being on FB (and I m talking about 10 year olds) My grandson thinks his Mum is the meanest because she wont succomb to all these things but he s in a very small minority and sets him up as different which she also doesnt want to do
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #35 Posted: 08 November 2011 at 08:08 AM »
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The point I was trying to illustrate was how difficult it is to stick to your guns when all the rest of the class are doing something different I wasnt suggesting my children didnt say no to their children (probably need to look nearer to home for the reason) Not sure if yours is a general comment or not but just to clarfy things my children all worked from 12 years of age went to university, gained professions never been out of work and are bringing their children up well
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #36 Posted: 08 November 2011 at 09:20 AM »
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I totally agree Andre ( whoops just picking myself up of floor) just trying to point out that it is very different in the 2000's to the time I brought my kids up and although as responsible parents and in my case grandparent we stick to the rules it is very much harder to do so both for the adults and the kids
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #37 Posted: 08 November 2011 at 09:31 PM »
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If I was a lady the words in my head wouldnt be there
Me can think whatever me wants.
Fancy you knowing Hamlet as well as politics - a two trick pony after all
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #38 Posted: 10 November 2011 at 07:35 PM »
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Just to get back on topic for a while, it seems that time is running out if we are going to prevent runaway global warming.
"The world is on the brink of irreversible climate change, according to a report released on Wednesday by the International Energy Agency (IEA)." http://huff.to/sDqbBd
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Aussie K
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #39 Posted: 10 November 2011 at 10:24 PM »
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That should then cut the population down George & bring the world back to some sort of balance.
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George27
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #41 Posted: 10 November 2011 at 11:42 PM »
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Or as Dickens put it
"``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. "
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frankiesays
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #42 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 12:29 AM »
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One benefit of global warming seems to be 'Heat waves will differentially kill elderly people – In 2003 there was a heatwave in Europe that killed 35,000-50,000 in Europe and nearly 15,000 in France. Older people were differentially affected, the problems being that older people are frailer, more prone to heat stress and have diminished brain signalling of dehydration stress'.
Does that mean after global warming we'll be able to walk up the aisles or Morrisons freely without them being blocked by elderly people? 
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #43 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 06:20 AM »
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Why not just cull everyone when they reach 60 - no need to pay pensions then, kill two birds with one stone
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Boatbuilder
John
Administrator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender: 
Posts: 4747
I've learnt to take everything life throws at me!!
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #44 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 06:43 AM »
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Don't tempt some posters on here, FC. Remember Logan's Run - they did it at 25, I think!
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 An Oyster 575 |
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snowdrop
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #46 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 08:39 AM »
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what good idea polish us off 60.spend spend then i leave my offspring bl 00dy big debts nice leave him something.in their intrest keep me alive and well..DOOMED DOOMED WE ALL DOOMED.well i am i just had full english paddington station it was orrible
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freelance
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #47 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 09:35 AM »
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i just had full english paddington station it was orrible
You found something English at Paddington?
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #48 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 09:53 AM »
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Perhaps you eat people over 60 haha
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nikkai
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #49 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 09:55 AM »
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With the current thread on here I see that Lowestoft on Line will soon be off the air so to speak if any of the current ideas are taken up on 
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There are NO strangers HERE ! Only Friends who have not yet met....
One cannot think well, sleep well,live well if one has not dinned well "virginia woolf"
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snowdrop
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #50 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 10:55 AM »
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mostly welsh fl.what is so sad there is strong police presence with a sniffer dog because of 11/november.but is no problems.train going to stop for 2min silence all trainr do that good.did't know did that
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Boatbuilder
John
Administrator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender:
Posts: 4747
I've learnt to take everything life throws at me!!
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #52 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 01:20 PM »
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That's not very nice, SD. You make it sound as if FC is a 'tough old bird'. 
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An Oyster 575
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #55 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 06:24 PM »
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Dont have a go at me. My Dads had a fall today and I ve just got back so dont feel good
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Jamesw82
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #56 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 06:46 PM »
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Hope your dad's alright now FC
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malcolm
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #57 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 06:49 PM »
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Sorry to hear that Funky. I hope he is ok.
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Forever Yellow
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #58 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 06:55 PM »
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Thanks guys hes ok but every fall at 91 takes its toll bless him fingers crossed
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Boatbuilder
John
Administrator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender:
Posts: 4747
I've learnt to take everything life throws at me!!
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #59 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 07:12 PM »
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I hope he recovers well, FC. He's got a devoted family to help him.
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An Oyster 575
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funkychick
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #61 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 07:48 PM »
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Thaks Corine- I do and I will x
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Trigger
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #62 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 07:53 PM »
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Funkly - sorry to hear about Dad’s fall . . . at least he has a good nurse! And remember to look after yourself at this time.
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snowdrop
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #63 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 09:04 PM »
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i can.t get back to previous page so is it bad fall.best he get confidence back asap
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Meg
Global Moderator
Lowestoft Online Addict
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I love Lowestoft but I love Oklahoma more!
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Re: Doomed?
« Reply #64 Posted: 11 November 2011 at 09:09 PM »
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Sorry to hear about your dad fc.I am thinking of you.
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