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vinnyboy33
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Its a bit like the journal comments though most of the work will be at great yarmouth and the jobs side of things will only come to qualified workers with experience so cant see it bringing any local jobs. But i guess anything is better than nothing coming to the area.
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JustStu
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They will need hundreds of workers. Of course there will be local employment.
There aren't enough qualified, experienced workers to fill what this project will need. So there will be a lot of training going on too.
It's not about having wind farm experience, as the industry is very young. It's about having transferable skills, and there will be lots of people with those.
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I told my girlfriend I had a job in a bowling alley. She said 'Tenpin?' I said, 'No, permanent.'
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Old Spice
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The reality is that there will be few if any extra jobs for Lowestoft people.
The harbour at Yarmouth was planned as a wind farm service centre right from the start.
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JustStu
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No it wasn't.
And are you really suggesting that because most jobs will be in GY, that people from Lowestoft won't be able to do them, or too far for them to travel?
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I told my girlfriend I had a job in a bowling alley. She said 'Tenpin?' I said, 'No, permanent.'
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SIFU
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It wont create hundreds of jobs for Lowestoft or Gt Yarmouth as all the wind turbines are currently being installed by both the Dutch and the Danish, and once they are all installed they will be maintained by the Windcat boats who go out and service them.
So how many jobs will that create then? and the Orbis energy centre is run by Scottish and Southern power who only want technical staff, so in the end the only people who benefit from it all is the service company’s and i don’t see them advertising for hundreds of staff now or in the near future do you? 
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JustStu
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Clearly you're an expert SIFU. 
These Windcat boats build themselves do they? And then they operate themselves, service themselves, refuel themselves etc etc
It all needs people. And local people as the operating base will be in this area.
Same with the construction. It doesn't matter what nationality the companies are, they will look locally because this area has a long history of offshore support and construction.
And for a 15-20 year installation period, plus the maintenance on top, do you not think it will support a lot of local businesses in the service/maintenance industry? Plus support industries like stores, engineers, electricians, seafarers.
That's the big problem with this town and this area. People whinge that no industry comes here, and then when it does, people still whinge and put it down.
SIFU, as windfarm jobs are clearly unsuitable to this town, what industry would you prefer to come here and bring 100's of easy jobs?
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SIFU
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How big do you think the Wind cat boats are? do you know how many crew they need ? well!
the wind farms are only for a few not the many when it comes to jobs.
the wind turbines are made in holland and denmark and installed by the Dutch and the Danish
the vessels they use are not British or crewed by anyone local there is hardly any english crews on them
i know because i work for them so clearly that makes me a bit of an expert then huh! 
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JustStu
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No sorry, it still doesn't make you sound like a bit of an expert.
How many windcat vessels will the new array need?
How much work will there be for maintenance and repairs of turbines?
How many installation vessels will be needed?
Why do you think Seajacks is building it's new HQ next to the outer harbour? And also ordering new jackups?
How many people will be needed shore-side to support the installation vessels? All locals!
Anyway, I didn't post the topic as a willy-waving exercise.
If people can't see any benefit to the local area from this then it just shows how negative this place is! 
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JustStu
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Are you currently working out of GY on installations?
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Old Spice
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The port at Yarmouth was built on the promises of freight and ferry services.
I think it caught ABP on the hop,it was built at the right time as far as wind turnine work goes and gives yarmouth a big advantage over Lowestofts port.
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vinnyboy33
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Yes it does big time as the vessels cant get into lowestoft where as they can hop into the outer harbour and load up with ease. As for local jobs i still dont see it sorry just my opinion i knew about 20 people who worked at SLP as i used to ferry them around in my cab but they are all out of work now so i dont get the comment where they are working for the turbines now as they are not. Also the boats are all people from out of town i.e teeside etc even the people who work for SSE in lowestoft docks are not from lowestoft again i have ferried them around and only 2 are local. I guess it will always be a talking point and im glad the area could prosper from the industry but i dont think it will create 100s of local jobs it will just create a load of jobs for people who have the knowledge and for people to come in form other places so that to me is not local jobs for lowestoft people.
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Scorpio
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the vessels cant get into lowestoft where as they can hop into the outer harbour
Would love to see a ship hop!
What does it hop on? 
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SIFU
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CharlieR ... Are you saying all the wind turbine parts are loaded from the dock? and then on to the ships?
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SIFU
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the Orbis energy centre may class as one place and if there is any in the NWES Building next to Lings Honda?
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SIFU
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Well all the components come across from Holland on a Barge and stay on the Barge when the GMS Endeavour comes back in to port it manoeuvres it self by the barge and the vessels own crane loads the wind turbine parts onto the vessel and then sails when its ready so no dock side cranes load that vessel.
Also the GMS Endeavour has 99% foreign crew and about 6 English guys onboard and none of them are local.
And East port to date is not advertising there have 100s of vacancies and to date they have not bought any new cranes or fork lift trucks or anything, none of the local Taxi firms have had to take on more staff.
Sea Jacks is only going near the outer harbour not in it as they got a massive grant
For a new building so they wont have 2 offices spread about for there staff
So again I can not see them employing 100s of new staff and also Gms Endeavour
And the Sea Jacks are mostly using a engineering company from Ipswich for most of there upgrades or repairs RMI Engineering
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vinnyboy33
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I guess the debate will reign on. As i said im all for this area benifiting i just dont see how it creates local jobs. I love wind turbines and love seeing them and thanks for the photo charlier.
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funkychick
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As you all know I am a great fan of the wind turbines I can only see positivity around this new industry. Even if at worst it only brought people here to work from away surely that will bring in finances to the town,- renting houses shopping etc I m old enough to remember all the same arguments around the oil rigs workers coming here in the 70's and 80's
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Aussie K
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Every little helps & there will always be work on these turbines while they are still standing so the more that go up the merrier, it's such a shame that SLP could not have got involved on a bigger scale.
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Old Spice
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Personally I think they are hideous contraptions that spoil the view and are inefficient.Energy costs for the consumer will be much higher to compensate for the huge grants dished out to stick up windmills in the misguided belief that they'll somehow negate the effects of all the rest of the planets pollutants.
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Smiley71
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Couldn't have put it better myself OS.
What a complete waste of time they are.
They only attract the "Sheep" who believe they will be the end to all our troubles.
Complete eyesores. over-hyped inefficient rubbish!
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The Gospel According To Gene Hunt!
I'm Like Marmite - You Either Love Me, Or Hate Me!
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funkychick
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I am not disappointed I was waiting with bated breath for you to jump in there Smiley theres one more missing I'm waiting ......
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Smiley71
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No...I'm saying no more on it. said my piece 
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Smiley71
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Old Spice
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The Chinese and India distribute thousands of tons of pollution into the air,the sea and earth daily making parts for silly smart cars and eco friendly this that and the others for tree huggers to use with a self satisfied smile as they 'save the planet'.
Sticking up a few windmills wont make a smell of difference,they're just sticking plasters on a broken leg.
As corporal Fraser used to say "We're all doomed I tell ye,doomed".
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funkychick
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Of course electricity pylons are sooooooooooooooo beautiful
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SIFU
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On the Subject of Wind Turbines! if you have the Lowestoft Journal and turn to page 16 you will see behind the 4 gentlemen.
In the background all the wind turbine parts sitting on a barge (as they always do) and not laying on the dock, and also there is the vessel called the Sea Jacks Alongside it loading the turbines onto the vessel using their own onboard crane! see the Fairies don’t load them from the dock!
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funkychick
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Oh he s here, I knew it wouldnt be long, ahhhh bless
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Sunny
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I think they are great, when we do visit Lowestoft the scene of them all on the Horizon is really pretty, they have picked an area close to us now ,so that is good, I have read up on them, and also studied the pics that the Professor put online some time ago, and I think they will be a boon, we will see eh!, ahh bless funky!
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I Love Lowestoft
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Old Spice
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Now the subsidies are under threat (and about time) maybe we'll see people less keen to have these eyesores on their land.
I saw Gulliver going round the other day,I was going to take a video as the sight was so unusual.
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George27
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Regarding the Daily Mail article, I would like to raise a couple of points.
If the temperature can be 4 degrees difference from the front to the rear of the turbines why has no one noticed this? This a noticeable change, one that a person could easily feel. It seems odd that this hasn't been pointed out before.
As for the statement 'In these financially straitened times, we think it is unwise to make consumers pay, through taxpayer subsidy, for inefficient and intermittent energy production that typifies onshore wind turbines.'
Taxpayer subsidy? I thought it was paid for by a levy on energy bills.
Inefficient? When the 'fuel' is free and will never run out this is a silly statement.
As with global warming, it is hard to get a proper debate on wind energy...but still one tries 
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frankiesays
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So they change temperature then? A bit like a car engine maybe?
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Old Spice
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The law of conservation of energy applies.
Taking energy from the wind and turning it into electricity isn't 100% efficient (nothing can be) so it must generate other forms of energy like heat for example.
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Sunny
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I also am not sure about that O S, but the wind will always blow I guess, and it is free spirit.
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George27
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It would seem that the Daily Mail story has a bit of history to it. http://bit.ly/AtoEWz . What's the betting the 'turbines cause climate change' will join the myths of 'no warming since 1997', 'UEA made up reports' and 'volcanoes produce more CO2 than man'?
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Old Spice
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The law of conservation of energy is fact. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but only changed into another form or forms.Transferring wind energy into electricity (which is then itself changed back into heat or light for example) cannot be 100% efficient as perpetual motion is an impossibility.
So it is entirely probable that windmills generate heat.
I can't see that it's a valid argument for or against the stupid things but it is scientific fact. Just because the Mail prints something it doesn't mean its not true although it is in all probability exaggerated.
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Sunny
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Environmental Blog interesting isnt it, but the D M does seem a bit blase` re: Roy`s statements, time will tell, let`s hope they turn out for our good eh!
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frankiesays
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So based on that principle I guess the M1 must be causing climate change as well. Has anybody measured the heat either side of that? When it is foggy you can't see anything either side of the motorway but you can usually see at least a half-mile down it, must be to do with the heat of the exhausts.
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Sunny
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Sounds foesible frankiesays mmmmmm!!!!!!!!!
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snowdrop
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snny where have you been,nice see you back...i do believe the m1 would cause heat changes or there be heat changes.work out physic laws.windturbine woud give off certain amount of heat due to friction
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Old Spice
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A group of East Anglias Tory MPs have asked their illustrious leader to cut the subsidies paid to shore based windfams (apparently they now get paid not to produce electricity). I didn't see a signature from Pee Wee Pete Aldous. His enthusiasm for windmills seems to know no bounds.
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freelance
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A group of East Anglias Tory MPs have asked their illustrious leader to cut the subsidies paid to shore based windfams (apparently they now get paid not to produce electricity).
Our Gulliver should soon be a millionaire then.
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nauticaljane
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Yep or billionaire it would be funny but we are paying
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George27
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(apparently they now get paid not to produce electricity)
Really? This is news to me..can you please provide a link to this?
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George27
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Sorry OS, but I could not see anything there which backs up your statement that 'they get paid not to produce electricity'. Maybe I missed it, or you put the wrong link up by mistake.
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George27
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Ah I see! The inefficient turbines that never turn, produced too much power. Not quite the same thing is it?
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swingbridge
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Nice one but i woudnt waste too much energy tryying to convicne the likes of os with logic and common sense
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frankiesays
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Whatever our opinion on the matter, George asked for proof and got it. the only thing to discuss really is whether the report is true or not - imho.
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swingbridge
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Youve misssed the point frankiesays
Os has provided proof about the payemnts for not generating electricicty but the proof that the ones in scotland made too much power for the grid to handlee demolishes his previuos statemements about how worthless and inefficient thiese things are
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funkychick
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Its trying to prove a negative with a positive 'Its a useless pair of socks they never wear out'
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Old Spice
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Oh dear swing bridge is already hiding behind his non de plume attacking the person and not the argument.As for the 'likes of Old Spice" you know nothing about me (or much else).
When the wind doesn't blow the things don't go round at all and produce nothing.
When the winds too strong they can't be connected to the grid and so contribute nothing.Payments are made to companies in the form of subsidies when they aren't working.
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George27
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I only asked for more information about payments being made for not producing electricity as I am interested in the subject, and this was a new one to me. It would seem that the assertion made was groundless in fact...unless others have more information
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Sunny
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. 
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Sunny
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Well put funky, time will tell us!
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Sunny
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Very interesting SIFU thanks for that.
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George27
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Interesting link SIFU. Liked the quote from RenewableUK,
.. the trade body which represents the renewable energy industry, said all suppliers to the National Grid periodically were asked to reduce output to control the balancing mechanism. He said it was simply evidence of the growing part wind energy had to play in Britain's supply needs that turbines would occasionally be taken off the National Grid.
The anti wind people can not have it both ways. Either the turbines produce so little power they don't matter, or they produce so much that the grid can not cope .
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frankiesays
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Am I right in assuming then that if we already had sufficient power stations to generate the energy we need but wanted cheaper "renewable" energy that the additional wind turbines in combination with the existing power stations would produce too much energy? So perhaps we must close some coal fired power stations and only bring them online as needed?
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George27
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It isn't that simple Frankie. A wind turbine can be started and stopped quickly, where as a coal fired plant takes a long time to come on line from cold. Coal and nuclear are normally used as base load generators . Gas and renewables are better for supply peak load demands.
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George27
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Indeed we could FC. With a high voltage grid across Europe we could trade wind generated power for solar generated power. The technology exists we just need to political will to make it happen.
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Old Spice
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EON recentlty (2011) stated that they need a 80 to 90% backup facility for wind power.They suggested most could be provided by existing conventional power stations.
If it is true that windmill owners are paid when the windmill doesn't go round the owners of 'Gulliver' must be raking in a fortune.It hasn't moved at all yet again for the past day or so.
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George27
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If it is true that windmill owners are paid when the windmill doesn't go round....
Well seeing that no one has put a link to back up the claim that wind power generators get paid to produce no electricity, then can we assume that no such subsidy exists?
I am pretty sure that if such a payment was being made then it would be general knowledge.
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Old Spice
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I think you've already had links that show they're paid subsidies when not producing electricity,its just that you can see them.
Gulliver is doing its statue impersonation again today I doubt you can see that either.
Gulliver has apprently gone round less than half the days of this year so far,if thats efficiency I'm the Queen of Sheba.
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George27
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Once again OS you have just backed up what I posted earlier '...The National Grid asked the company, Fred Olsen Renewables, to shut down its Crystal Rig II wind farm last Saturday for a little over eight hours amid fears the electricity network would become overloaded.' The turbines were producing more power than the grid could handle. As turbines and be switched off and on very quickly it makes sense to shut these down rather than other power plants.
This is not the same as saying that payments are made for not producing power. If such payments were made then why bother with expensive generators and connection cables? Just put up non working turbines and collect the cash.
PS Guliver was turning a treat this afternoon.
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Old Spice
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Yes Gulliver was going round this afternoon,I went down to give it a round of applause.
However you cut it the windfarm was paid to not produce electricity.I think we're getting hung up on semantics and are never going to agree anyway.
Good to have a frank discussion without it turning personal though, as someone much wiser than I said "I might not agree with your opinion but I'll fight to the death you right to state it" (actually I don't know about the till death bit,but you get my drift).
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funkychick
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I passed Gulliver twice today and he was spinning happily both times
Go Gulliver go 
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George27
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I agree with you OS, this should be used to debate the subject, not to sling abuse at others.
Wind energy (and other renewables) will play an ever increasing role in the Uk's energy mix as gas and oil become evermore scarce and the threat of global warming becomes ever greater.
We will ever agree on this subject? Possibly not, but that is no reason not to carry on the debate.
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Old Spice
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I'm willing to carry on George but I'm travelling about a lot looking at properties etc.Just pushed for time.
ps.
Everytime I mention Gullivers stopped it seems to start turning within hours,or do they crank it round evertime you of FC go past?.Maybe there are some pedals at the bottom and some one to turn them every so often.
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funkychick
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Its you OS takes one look and freezes - its scared
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George27
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It does stop in the morning to prevent flicker shadow.
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