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Andre M
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Public sector unions will this week ask the courts to strike out one of the government's key austerity measures, in a move that could benefit millions of workers who face losing inflation-related rises on their pensions.
Judges will be asked in two separate legal actions to rule that ministers broke the law when they decided to uprate pensions and benefits according to the consumer prices index (CPI), which historically has risen by a smaller amount each year than the retail prices index (RPI).
Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/23/unions-legal-action-public-sector-pensions
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Aussie K
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There will have to be many many more cuts in the next 2.5 years if the government are to reach there target. What might help them more exports , but evon better than that manufacture more of the goods that we consume at home.
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Mickrog
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@ Aussie K..............where do you suggest that we actually manufacture more of the goods which we consume at home ?..........the manufacturing base of this country has been flattened, the transport infrastructure depleted beyond belief and all of our future captains of industry are moving abroad for their free education (and trust me they wont be coming back once they have experienced the oportunities they will face in the forward thinking nations).............
@ Andre M................love the rancour in your "expecting pensioners to manufacture" comment...........perhaps they can do it in their care homes........oh no sorry..............there all closing too..........
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"The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech."
-George Bernard Shaw
“The cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it.”
Mao Tse-Tung quote
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Boatbuilder
John
Administrator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender: 
Posts: 4747
I've learnt to take everything life throws at me!!
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Can we have less of the sarcasm in these posts please. It is not really necessary. I think that comment has been used at least twice in these forums already.
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 An Oyster 575 |
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snowdrop
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good use of hyperbole,or have spelt it wrong or am i indeed using it
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Aussie K
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Mikrog, that of coarse is a problem but great trees start from acorns.
There is a great railway works in Derbyshire that is crying out for work perhaps instead of of giving the next rail carriage oder to France just maybe it could be placed there. I have said before on a number of occasions that purchasing from abroad may seem cheaper but the opposite is more true, for inst. if we purchased a carriage from France we have to purchase the cost of there labour the cost of the materials in it's manufacture there overheads & mark ups and in addition pay unemployment pay to the people langwishing on the dole.
We must as a nation think positively & have the courage to move foreword,
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Boatbuilder
John
Administrator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender:
Posts: 4747
I've learnt to take everything life throws at me!!
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Why does everything with you have to evolve round the 'Public Sector' Andre? Aussie's post was referring to the Railway works in Derbyshire so I would read that as those 'langwishing on the dole' are the ones losing their jobs from that sector. There are other areas of hardship outside the Public Sector.
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An Oyster 575
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snowdrop
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my dream if won lottery would set up some private enterprize teach people new talents like wood work etc and not just for young people always wanted do that
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Boatbuilder
John
Administrator
Lowestoft Online Addict
Gender:
Posts: 4747
I've learnt to take everything life throws at me!!
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I have worked in the private sector for 48 years and I have seen substantial job losses (including my own job twice in that time) within the private sector. What about the thousands of jobs that have been lost in the Steel and Motor industries over the years to name just two sectors? I think that to keep forcing the hardships of the Public Sector at people on here that do not work in it, when they are referring to the private sector (Aussie's post) , will not get your cause any sympathy votes.
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An Oyster 575
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snowdrop
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i worked in public sector most of my life aswel ...my daughter is in residential home which is private ( all i can say pay pennies get monkies)it is funded by public money majoity not going on residents or staff payments and minimum on upkeep of house.If the house was owned by social srevice or nhs the standards should be different(one would hope)This seems to be the way of things thses days it becoming draconian
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snowdrop
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and i really dont know what i talking about today...i know it very sad when ever i pass through dagnham i see Fords when i was child nearly everyone in my area had someone working there or Plessy...i worked at place called national plactic that like plessy are car parks...i was one last people to leave that factory tha day it closed and many people went through doors crying myself included i went back to public sector i was lucky 500hundred people went on scrap heap that day and that was along time ago
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Mickrog
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@ Aussie K............
How many German ambulances, police cars - even buses, are any other than of german manufacture. Ask how many French publicly owned/service vehicles are of other than french manufacture. Look at ours, and see if ANY authority is using british made ones.
A succession of Goverments broke the back of our manufacutiring bases by introducing the "free market" .......... cash rich conglomerates bled our manufacturing base dry.
Britain has a population of a similar size to France, and their auto-industry does very well, supported by the people for the people, THe PSA group is a world leader in the markets in which it operarates.......
You allude to the Bombardier works in Derby .......Go through the figures, and in short, you end up with a story about much of what's gone wrong with the British economy. A once-great business (and a workforce that must count as among the most skilled in the world) has been passed around from multinational owner to multinational owner until it looks decidedly dog-eared.
In the fish-wrapper jingoism that most of the tabloids indulged in about the Germans taking our jobs under perfidious European rules, very few made the obvious, if inconvenient, point that our champion of homegrown manufacturing was actually headquartered in Montreal and listed on the Toronto stock exchange and you should also note that since British Rail Engineering Limited was privatised in 1989, it has been run by a consortium led by a Swiss-Swedish firm, passed on to Germany's Chrysler before being flogged to Canada's Bombardier.
Some of the local managers at the Derby base were once apprentices there, and thanks to a big union presence they ploughed a lot of money into excellent staff training. But the parent company didnt support this training and centre of excellence and didnt invest in the equipment or premises: this is a manufacturing facility of a major multinational but now it looks like a museum of industrial heritage, there are gashes in the brickwork, and old slate roofs.
As always, the senior management blindly following a mythos of looking no further than quarterly returns. Closely followed by 30+ years of government that made profitable manufacturing in the UK impossible.
Oh yes, and workers wanting a salary that they can live on.
The huge problem with the concept in investment, whether in people, equipment and technology is that it runs contrary to the "Greed is everything philosophy" that we nmow seem to have entrenched in this country.
It's like that bit from Lewis Caroll which states "Alice had forgotten that if you drink from a bottle called poison it's certain to disagree with you sooner or later".
And encouraging foreign businesses to take over British Businesses has not served us well, but never mind the bankers that arranged the deal, and the management are sure to have been well paid for their expertise and talent.
Who is to blame..............three successive Tory PM's..........Thatcher, Major and Blair....
Soory everyome about this diatribe.............but again Aussie K has hit on a subject about which I am passionate......
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"The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech."
-George Bernard Shaw
“The cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it.”
Mao Tse-Tung quote
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Dave01
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Mick
Calm down mate. I know the story. It was destined to be an assembly yard. I didnt and still dont agree with that outcome because I ( and others who had a new loco in design) knew better, yet most parts came from abroad and I'm still in touch with the designers. It became political and a huge amount of talent was lost.The next generation is the low profile hydrogen fuel cell train which I designed and I'm waiting and in touch with our eastern partners to develop the ceramic plates for.
If you have an interest in Locos then please pm me. All the parts are global but wouldn't it be great if it were assembled in Lowestoft.... in our dreams.. ps.. it is still 1/3 the cost to build it in China... it's the global world we live in...
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freelance
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How many German ambulances, police cars - even buses, are any other than of german manufacture. Ask how many French publicly owned/service vehicles are of other than french manufacture. Look at ours, and see if ANY authority is using british made ones.
They might look a bit silly though. Wasn't the last British production car the Reliant three wheeler? Expired long ago.
I know you said "British made".
The motor industry provides employment but mostly not British cars.
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Dave01
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Andre. I say to Mick to calm down simply because I've been down that route and there is nothing we can do to change it.
In Lowestoft UK we have many huge ideas but investment/govt support is not forthcoming. In my own company we have £5million or more of highly profitable ideas yet they do not appear on Govt policy so banks/investors are risk-adverse and Lowestoft loses out on being a pioneering town...in SO many areas at the moment... in the future this will change, but at the moment all the pioneering skills (here and elsewhere) are just being lost... imo..
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Dave01
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YES
We have lost 6-12 months or more over red tape. The ministers say it takes a year to get a process, or a dept to realise they're told they need a timed process..it get's worst the more questions you ask!
I know this is true because I ask these questions all the time.
aaaaaagh!!
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Mickrog
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@ Freelance..........
I take your point but in the same context and to use your analogy...........Bombardier trains would have been British made........the designs would have been British..........only the badging of the trains would have any level of connectivity to their Canadian pedigree..........
As far as the Reliant name is concerned I would have thought that the Scimitar would make an enviable addition to the UK's traffic police.........
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"The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech."
-George Bernard Shaw
“The cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it.”
Mao Tse-Tung quote
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Dave01
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Mick
I know the designer(s) of these trains. Few parts are British (I was shocked to hear this too). They (Bombadier) just assemble the parts here in UK. I sent you a pm to agree/explain the state of UK industry..
It needs to change, but we are in a so called "global economy" now. Where have all the British Engineers gone?
.....maybe they all became accountants ;-)
ATB
Dave
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Aussie K
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Mick, I am not able to mach you eloquence & competence in presenting that post of yours much of which I have to agree with. I have on a number occasions blamed our governments not least the one of Margaret Thatcher in the decimation of our industries & our skilled work force. I have also stated on numerous occasions that it is not cheaper to buy goods from abroad, it only seems cheeper.
However you're summing up of the problems were incomplete, You fail to mention the major part the trade unions played in our demise & I would assume that it was calculated, I have been critical of the role that trade unions played so many times that I am not intending to run through it all again, but you have chosen to close a blind eye to it as is often the case with people with left of centre political views.
What now? We are where we are and my whole object in labouring my points of view are for us all to move forward & rebuild this country of ours in order that people can have security in there lives.
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snowdrop
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i dont know if i gone off subject but my retirment pension more than husbands but he worked longer he did 10yrs more,my friend never work day in her life will get same pension as me but will be made up with credits and her rent and water paid.i dont resent it but find it unfair
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Mickrog
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Quote from Aussie K.........
"However you're summing up of the problems were incomplete, You fail to mention the major part the trade unions played in our demise & I would assume that it was calculated, I have been critical of the role that trade unions played so many times that I am not intending to run through it all again, but you have chosen to close a blind eye to it as is often the case with people with left of centre political views"
@ Aussie K..........I dont think i specifically"swerved" any mention of the part the trade unions palyed in our demise because I didnt think at that stage of the debate it was of any particular relevance.......
As a person passionate about his own plotical views I am more than happy to debate the issues you allude to and trust me you are misguided in your intepretation of my comments on LOL if you think I will ever "turn a blind eye"...........and to be honest how you can actually say that this is "often the case with people with left of centre political views" quite frankly amazes me.
I will debate at any level my personla "politics" and am proud to do so in any arena..... I will however let you take the lead on this one and suggest that you describe the what you think "part the unions" took in our demise actually means.............
I will leave you with one thought leader from a personal viewpoint rather than anything politically biased ...."Politics rather than economics, was, is and will always be in the driving seat" and whilst being a union member has ceased to be the social norm, and a new generation has grown up who not only are not trade unionists, but whose parents have never been in unions either" it is however and will always remain that the rank and file of this nation, whether of a left or right political persuasion, are our wealth creators.........and they are the people who if allowed will drag us out of the current economic soup in which we find ourselves....
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"The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech."
-George Bernard Shaw
“The cardinal responsibility of leadership is to identify the dominant contradiction at each point of the historical process and to work out a central line to resolve it.”
Mao Tse-Tung quote
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frankiesays
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it is however and will always remain that the rank and file of this nation, whether of a left or right political persuasion, are our wealth creators.........and they are the people who if allowed will drag us out of the current economic soup in which we find ourselves....
That is certainly debatable Andre, one could say that if the business owner had not created the business in the first place, possibly at his own financial peril, those rank and file people would not be creating any wealth at all. That must mean that they need a job to do so?
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frankiesays
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frankiesays - you seem to be attributing a quote from Mickrog to me so he would need to answer you on that. Apologies Andre - I was. It's not the "lucky to have the job" argument but fact.
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frankiesays
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I don't know many who pay themselves the same as their employees.
Would you? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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frankiesays
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NO
You can have an absolutely not as well if you like.
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